Foreign Policy
Feb. 8th, 2021 07:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rain_gryphonI certainly hope something will be done to rein in the State Department from pursuing sanctions against China for their treatment of the Uyghers. Pompeo, a generally good Sec'y of State, declared it a 'genocide' on his last day in office, which was utterly ridiculous. That was done, I'm sure, to make trouble for Biden, rather than from any sincere assessment of the situation. To his credit, Biden hasn't taken any action in response.
The enemy of our enemy is not always our friend. The lesson of Zbigniew Brzezinski's support of the Afghan Taliban as a way to bedevil the hated Soviets should be held firmly in mind here. That led directly to 9/11 and all of the consequences that ensued. We're still paying that bill with American blood and treasure, and undoubtedly will be for many years to come.
Our encouragement of Moslem fundamentalism and extremism in Afghanistan is also directly responsible for having plunged that country back into the Dark Ages, and destabilized much of the region around it. Do we really want to take the risk of encouraging violence and disorder in Sinkiang, and possibly destabilizing China, with its nuclear weapons?
The enemy of our enemy is not always our friend. The lesson of Zbigniew Brzezinski's support of the Afghan Taliban as a way to bedevil the hated Soviets should be held firmly in mind here. That led directly to 9/11 and all of the consequences that ensued. We're still paying that bill with American blood and treasure, and undoubtedly will be for many years to come.
Our encouragement of Moslem fundamentalism and extremism in Afghanistan is also directly responsible for having plunged that country back into the Dark Ages, and destabilized much of the region around it. Do we really want to take the risk of encouraging violence and disorder in Sinkiang, and possibly destabilizing China, with its nuclear weapons?
no subject
Date: 2021-02-09 12:53 am (UTC)Complete obliteration of my cultural/ethnic group would rank in my table of risks way above "violence and disorder". I don't usually invoke the Holocaust argument lightly, but that's exactly what these guys are facing, save the exact gas formula.
Even if culture mattered nothing, physical extermination with forced abortions is already going on.
There is no win letting China get away with it, neither moral nor practical.
no subject
Date: 2021-02-09 12:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-02-09 01:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-02-09 01:20 am (UTC)That filtering system is called "DreamWidth". I am subscribed to you.
I've been under a sort of impression that I am more aligned politically with you than with most of the English-speaking DW.
I am therefore utterly confused to see my comment being perceived as friendly fire or something.
When I was young, people on the Internet engaged in debate with random strangers.
If that's no longer normal, forgive poor Rip Van Winkle.
no subject
Date: 2021-02-09 01:34 am (UTC)Yes, I did perceive it as some sort of political attack (or at least underhanded manipulation), primarily because I didn't realize you subscribed, and found the speed of the reply suspicious. Again, i'm sorry.
no subject
Date: 2021-02-09 01:45 am (UTC)"Manipulation" is an ambiguous word.
I am not paid for posting or volunteering for an organization. My expressed opinions are my own. American politics directly affects me and my family (we are in Northern California, East San Francisco Bay).
But if mere spreading of my point of view counts, then yes, of course! Cream or sugar?
no subject
Date: 2021-02-09 02:49 am (UTC)Complete obliteration of my cultural/ethnic group would rank in my table of risks way above "violence and disorder". I don't usually invoke the Holocaust argument lightly, but that's exactly what these guys are facing, save the exact gas formula.
Violence and (especially) disorder, in a country that owns nuclear weapons, is something to fear. And there are a *lot* of Uyghurs, and they are right in the middle of things. For the people of Taiwan, and the people of Hong Kong, I'm willing to take risks. They are, for all intents and purposes, Westerners. They've grown up with the same values that we hold to, and with the same expectations for their rights as individuals. They want the same things we want. They're worth fighting for, and above all, they're trustworthy and *safe*. If, for instance, Hong Kong managed to overthrow the central government and gain control of China's nuclear weapons (however unlikely that may be), I'm dead certain they'd not turn them against us.
With the Uyghurs, I don't have that certainty. That's a completely alien culture. Strange as it may sound, I think we probably have more in common with the Han Chinese, with whom we've been engaging for the past 50 years or so, and with whom we have avoided nuclear war (indeed, any war) for the past 65 or so. To the degree that China is re-educating the Uyghurs to think and act more like the Han, that is a good thing from my perspective. It may be an unpleasant process for them. It may, and probably will, result in horrible suffering and death for the ones determined to hew to their culturalidentity. The outcome for America, and for the West in general, though, is much safer and more predictable if the Uyghurs, as a distict cultural group, cease to exist, and instead become part of the Han.
Is that genocide? By the modern, UN-approved definition, certainly. Is it in any way comparable to the Holocaust? IMHO, no.
no subject
Date: 2021-02-09 03:10 am (UTC)On the pragmatic side, no "nuclear club" country has used nuclear fission/fusion weapons against its domestic opposition. Nuclear poisoning is, unfortunately, a thing, credits to my country of birth, but it wasn't WMD in the common meaning, with thousands of victims. There was blood in the streets and blood in the mountains when the USSR ended, but no WMDs were used. Those exact stances of the Han administration - atheistic, materialistic, nationalistic - would stop if from committing suicide in that unfortunate way.
I don't realistically expect the Uighur problem to be any more than a nail in the Han foot in the foreseeable future -- and that nail in the foot will, marginally, improve our negotiation leverage and favor our interests, whatever those might then be. No past colonial possession of a territorial empire has risen to be a threat to the modern world in the last 100 years (though some might say Saudi Arabia is borderline). Afghanistan would have been a poor example, for it had NOT been controlled by the Soviets, or any other major player, prior to the April Revolution and the Soviet invasion. So would have been Iran, for it was only occupied briefly in the 1943-1945, without a regime change. India, a past British colony, rose to a regional superpower as a democracy and unlikely presents a threat to anyone other than Pakistan. No, I don't think those present-day self-determinationists, however violent, are a major threat to us any more than those yesterday's, such as the IRA or the Irgun.
no subject
Date: 2021-02-09 03:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-02-09 02:38 pm (UTC)For over a hundred years, from Sir John A Macdonald on up, elimination of the First Nations people as an ethnicity from Canada has been national policy. From creating the Royal Mounted Police to push them into Reserves, increasingly restrictive definitions of what it takes to be considered an "Indian", the "Sixties Scoop", residential schools, shooting all the sled dogs, experimentation with infectious disease, and so on, the aim has been to eliminate the culture and claims of First Nations people, all for the benefit of the colonists. I do not think that ethnic cleansing is in any way a good thing.